Warwick - The recent media article regarding Warwick.

[Franco S.]

I don't know if anyone of you guys noticed this topic, but as a german, I can't open any of my favorite boards without being touched by it.

That's the deal: a week ago the president of germany, Horst Köhler, visited Markneukirchen and Warwick as an important regional employer. Due to this act some serious "gossip" gained attendance and awoke the interest of the general public.

Some anonymous sources, who are supposed to be former employees of Warwick, report of miserable situation at work, immoral wages and a working atmosphere wich is marked by terror, fear and oppression. HPW is being depicted as a despotic capitalist, who forces his employees to bully disagreeable clerks. Even small faults are being punished with draconic and illegal measures - reduction of holidays, dectraction of the company car, for example.

Furthermore HPW and Torsten Haberlah (manager of the european Warwick section and sales manager in chief) are accused of affronting employees in front of the whole staff.

The region around Markneukirchen is a good example for the lower developed (in comparison to western Germany) East of Germany - a high redundancy and strict laws for unemployment support scare the personnel of discontinuing their contract.

__________________________________________________ ____________

All reproaches are not testified but on the other hand not a single statement from HPW and Warwick or exonerating facts were published; therefore this thread is not intended to start a flame war, I just want to know, how you, dear Warwickers, are going to react... Do you care about this circumstances?

I am very sad about this, Warwick built my wonderful Corvette $$ and I was always very pleased about the quality of the products, but I just can't support a company wich is supposed to ignore our laws and the human dignity - at least until it is proved that black is white... (Nice idiom, isn't it? ;D).

Franco

dejá vu: I am sorry for my English...

[Mr Praline]

WTF is this? Some kind of a bad joke? From all I've heard, HPW is a terrific (not terrifying guy). He even answered my emails personally on a Sunday in China...

[noodles]

I don't buy it.

I met HPW at the NYC grand opening and he was extremely friendly. He asked me what I thought of the showroom and the look in his eyes was completely genuine.

BTW, I have e-mailed the custom shop numerous times and the man himself replied within a couple of hours. Since I live in NYC, he invited me to the grand opening. I am not an endorser or a star. He invited me because I am enthusiastic about his products and he appreciates this.

If HPW appreciates a nobody like me, I think he surely appreciates the people that make Warwick what it is.

[beda]

i once talked to torsten on the phone. such a nice guy.

i can´t imagine these stories to be true. classic rumors, not more...

AAAND: WHY DOES HORST KÖHLER GET A THUMB BASS FOR FREE FOR VISITING THE FACTORY??!!! :-)

[Guybrush Threepwood]

To quote you Franco, this is just 'gossip'. It would be very foolish to comment on something that sounds like quite a serious allegation with no black and white proof. We'll just have to see how it plays out.

[golem]

How about a little perspective, pleeeaze ?

No matter what the working conditions,
best or worst in the neighborhood, a Wick
employee is a German citizen or resident,
meaning s/he has healthcare, civil rights,
etc etc. If jobs are scarce in a region, of
course this stresses employees, with the
best bosses as well as the "least best"
[who ever that may be ... ]

So, Mr Newbie, I don't see you worrying
about the workers in Asia who make the
RockBasses ... workers with no real civil
rights, long hours, etc etc, and where no
"illegal labor practices" ever occur cuz it's
fully legal to treat workers like mules.

[Franco S.]

Bundespräsident: Horst Köhler und die Ausbeuter - Politik | STERN.DE

=> stern.de: Horst Köhler besucht Skandalbetrieb - IG Metall wirft Gitarrenbauer Warwick "Sklavenarbeit" vor <=

Warwick (Unternehmen) ? Wikipedia

(Sorry, the linked articles are german, I know)

I am not sure, if you can call this "classic rumours"... not, If a reputed magazine reports...

Again, I want to make this clear: I am a fan of Warwick products and I don't want to defame Warwick. All I want is the truth...

[Mr Praline]

Until it is confirmed/ruled in a courtroom I won't judge anyone. Innocent until proven guilty.

[Franco S.]

So, Mr Newbie, I don't see you worrying
about the workers in Asia who make the
RockBasses ... workers with no real civil
rights, long hours, etc etc, and where no
"illegal labor practices" ever occur cuz it's
fully legal to treat workers like mules.

I think you are right, Golem! Asian workers shouldn't be handled in a different way and I don't want to support those negative aspects of globalization. That's why I bought a German Warwick, a bass wich was crafted by happy, well-paid workers...

[boebl]

it's a pretty heavy discussed topic in different german bass-forums.
I intentionaly didn't open any thread in this forum - but I don't think it's just BS, either. Some facts are true, for sure. Some are exaggerated - and as long as I'm not in the position to differentiate both, I didn't want to insult anybody with false pretenses, they are confronted with every day now - not in THEIR forum.

Nevertheless - quite a lot of people announced not to buy any WW products anymore - it's a big image loss in Germany. In fact a lot of people really started campaining against WW, also by personal storys about HP (... worst I read was about grandmother Wilfer!!!!)
I personally don't support those working conditions and would be pretty happy to see them changed/matching the German "Tariflohn".
I still love the products.
But what's happening in big parts of the german bass-internet is really disgusting.

and +1 golem.
That's what I said in most of those discussions: Nobody worries about fender MIM or squier, yamaha, cort, ibanez,....

What I'm presonally missing is some kind of statement by WW. No reaction is the wrong reaction in this case, imo. Situation will calm down, but the image loss already happend - but some explanation to those reproaches could help with damage limitation.

edit:
i skipped one part - it's also missing in the main topic.
It's not only about "climate" in the company, but also about wages/workinghours/holidays.

[Franco S.]

... I didn't want to insult anybody with false pretenses, they are confronted with every day now - not in THEIR forum.

I chose this forum...

What I'm presonally missing is some kind of statement by WW. No reaction is the wrong reaction in this case, imo. Situation will calm down, but the image loss already happend - but some explanation to those reproaches could help with damage limitation.

.. because of this fact.

I am not interested in opinions of Warwick-haters, but I want to share my feelings about this topic with people who love this instruments like I do.

[FunkyMan]

[QUOTE=noodles;162032]I don't buy it.

I met HPW at the NYC grand opening and he was extremely friendly. He asked me what I thought of the showroom and the look in his eyes was completely genuine.

QUOTE]

Sorry, IMO, the fact that he's friendly and cordial out of the factory and with a potential customer, doesn't mean he does the same in his factory ... I have worked with many bosses who act in this way for their own interests! just opinion!

[Kontra]

Hi Franco S., I'm also a User of the Musiker-Board.

I also am a Warwick fanatic (owning an extremely rare Ltd. 2001 Thumb BO), but I also wonder why Warwick itself doesn't respond to the articles and opinions written everywhere in the Internet.

Of course it'sn not proven how the working conditions in Marktneukirchen really are. It's also not proven if this "Interview by an ex-Warwicker" going around in the Internet is authentic or not.

In this time, I will "take the flag to half-staff", which means: On stage I will play my Thumb passionated like ever, but with overtaped "W" at the headstock.

[boebl]

OH!
THIS INTERVIEW! Forgot about that.
F*ck it! Really - that's the only point in this whole story I don't believe a single word. It's just calumny.
I think I know WHO this person could be, - and it's also been deleted everywhere by now. It was just insolent.

[Kontra]

Of course it is - but google cache makes everything possible.

anywhays, of course it is a very propagandistic article, i also doubt it is authentic, but it shows how overheated the mood of some people is.
The only possible solution would be an official statement of Warwick or Mr. Wilfer himself, i guess.

[beda]

In this time, I will "take the flag to half-staff", which means: On stage I will play my Thumb passionated like ever, but with overtaped "W" at the headstock.[/QUOTE]

either you play warwick or you don´t.

[Kontra]

loving the instrument doesn't mean i'm going straight with the builder.

[beda]

OH!
THIS INTERVIEW! Forgot about that.
F*ck it! Really - that's the only point in this whole story I don't believe a single word. It's just calumny.
I think I know WHO this person could be, - and it's also been deleted everywhere by now. It was just insolent.

+1 my friend.
1100 EUR pre tax. no way dude.

[noodles]

[quote=FunkyMan;162046]

I don't buy it.

I met HPW at the NYC grand opening and he was extremely friendly. He asked me what I thought of the showroom and the look in his eyes was completely genuine.

QUOTE]

Sorry, IMO, the fact that he's friendly and cordial out of the factory and with a potential customer, doesn't mean he does the same in his factory ... I have worked with many bosses who act in this way for their own interests! just opinion!

I hear you Funkyman. I was just commenting on my perception of the situation. He seemed very interested in my comments.

I too have worked for numerous horrendous bosses. One of which I would even venture to call "evil". That "evil" always comes thru no matter how much someone smiles or how polite their tone of voice. HPW seemed for real to me. Although, I could be speaking out of ignorance and be completely wrong.

[boebl]

+1 my friend.
1100 EUR pre tax. no way dude.

sorry, that's something I sadly believe : /
(1100€ for 50h/week!!!)

[Kontra]

i remember, best thing would be a statement of HPW himself. of course, stern.de and other newspapers are this what we in germany call "käseblätter", but also if he says nothing, he says something.

[Greg]

Maybe an article on the pay & conditions of the Mexican Fender employees needs to also be published.& while we're at it,all the Asian factories that build for American companies like Spector,MTD/Gibson etc.Just to put into perspective that these conditions vary greatly from country to country,region to region.
I know nothing of award wages in germany,so cant comment.But I find it hard to belelieve a company can grow like this over 25 plus years while treating employees poorly.
We should remember that Hans peter's generousity has extended to supplying 2 Hellborg preamps,free of charge for anyone that wants to try it out.Doesnt seem to ad up that a man acused of being a "tyrant" who underpays his staff,would even consider something like this.Let alone allow all that free stuff go.Dont forget the fourm poster either.
btw,this very topic was posted on talkbass,& promptly locked,due to it's lack of any positive proof.

[Gerry]

Didn't we do this topic a long time ago?

[boebl]

Greg, - the stuff with the wages is something we can see as a fact.
It's been confirmed and discussions about this stuff are far older than this "crisis".
Warwick employees often say stuff like "we love our job and are willing to do it for this (less) money." - and that's something also written in job offers.
Warwick never tried to hide those details.
I personally think german "base rate" and maybe even worker's council should be a goal for Warwick over the next period, to gain back their image. But honestly I doubt this will happen with Germany as site of production.
It's just a lot discussion about "German made instruments" being pricey because of"made in Germany" label, but not under conditions common in Germany. I'm not going to root against Warwick, I'm trying to give you the whole picture - so you maybe understand what this discussion is all about. Germany has a standart in wages, holidays - generally conditions of employment - and Warwick is ... far below. On the other side it's said that WW is making a lot of money - but instead of paying their employees appropriate, they upgrade the visitors area with stuff like the biggest bubinga floor in europe (or something like that, I'm just trying to cite those articles)

HP is a great man - that's what I feel as a customer. And that's only thing I can judge about HIM. What's being said by other people I don't know and don't care to know is not of interest for me. How could I believe someone judging someones character, without knowing how honest this people are themself?
Only thing I believe is: HP is hard working and he is demanding his employees to be hard working. He is passionate about Warwick - and so should the employees be.
... BUT this gives a lot of room for interpretation I'm not willing to do.

[Greg]

Yes we did Gerry,I remember it well.
There was an article published in the media recently quoting an unnamed source.I read it & didnt take it seriously.It wreaked of sensationalism & because it didnt name the source,I didnt believe it.

[flipper_gv]

sorry, that's something I sadly believe : /
(1100€ for 50h/week!!!)

That's a good salary. I fail to see the problem with that. Here in Canada, that is just above the average salary that people do when working in a shop (steel shop for example). And 50 hours a week isn't all that bad! I fail again to see the problem with that.

[jester]

Employees are supposed to get at least minimum wage for 8 hours of work a day. Anything more than that should be paid overtime. A specific salary must be seen in proportion to each country's cost of life. The salary does not sound so great with my rough estimate of cost of life in Germany. 50 hours is +25% working time from 8 hours a day, which is a lot imho...

[flipper_gv]

Employees are supposed to get at least minimum wage for 8 hours of work a day. Anything more than that should be paid overtime. A specific salary must be seen in proportion to each country's cost of life. The salary does not sound so great with my rough estimate of cost of life in Germany. 50 hours is +25% working time from 8 hours a day, which is a lot imho...

Even with that, I still think the situation is far from being dramatic. I bet we get at LEAST 1,5x more taxed here than in Germany. And I still think working 50 hours a week is not all that bad, and I know what I'm talking about. I worked 60 + hours per week during all this summer and I usually work 20-25 hours per week + my university and I never thought it was all that bad. Oh and I'm being paid close to minimal wage, which is approx 7,5 euro/hour (minimal wage being more like 6 euros per hour in Canada).

And BTW, I do not think most employees are required to have a University degree to work there. I suppose most of them don't have much education in luthery aside from what they learned at Warwick. Sure, their salaries aren't the best in the country, may even be lower than the average, but the truth is, if they aren't specialized employees at the beginning, it is normal for not being as much paid as someone who has had education in a particular field.

[Curtis]

Ask any fired person about an opinion of his old boss... No one will be positive. So that's very subjective.

I've spoken to some Warwick guys at the Mese. They all love their job, they work hard, but that's rewarding, according to them.

These are just bad rumours I guess.

[Florin]

They say it is an old story... so if it is THAT bad, and THAT old, why they write it now?
Is it because of Warwick, or because of the president's visit?
Is this really meant to hit Warwick, or it was meant to hit in the Germany's Federal President? From my point of view things are clear, nobody cares about Warwick, nobody cares about the employees...
Here in Romania we just have presidential elections and everybody will throw ♣♣♣♣ in our president, and everything he touches. There is a chance to be 2009 an electoral year in Germany? There is a chance to be Warwick a collateral victim of a much bigger war?

##################################

I am from Romania, an EU country, 1 hour flight from Munich, and a good salary here is 300- 400 EUR, but really many people live their lives with less. Oh, and food is more expensive here than in Germany, especially in big cities.
As far as I understand, we are a big happy European Union, so why the guys at Stern De are so concerned about that part of Europe only?

################################################
I've visited the factory myself, and I work for Warwick too.
Warwick is really like a small family working together in a very small town. Everybody is working hard, but nobody as hard as Hans Peter.

They work for musicians, musicians are very demanding, everything must be perfect. I was chosen to be not as smart, and not as perfect, to make them look more human :-)
But there a lot of people are working very hard for us to have those instruments.

And you say you will not play Warwick anymore? Or that you will tape the W logo? There is an old man, I took a photo of him gluing the W logo.
Show some respect to him, and to all the guys that work there, because they like their job, and they build your basses with love and passion.

Same as us, musicians - the other side of the same barricade - the things at Warwick work a lot like in a band.
I used to work the last 10 years as a professional musician, the last 7 years in the same band. We were like a family, we loved our job. We were together the band - 6 people, and the technical staff - 6 more people - really like a family.
The lead singer said "♣♣♣♣ you!!!" once in front of my band mates and the whole staff. Even my keyboard player, who happens to be my brother in law, and a hardcore Christian, but I've never considered this to be "affronting employees in front of the whole staff" And the working conditions... OMG, I don't imagine someone working harder than we did, but it was our dream, our profession. 50 Hours/ Week? I don't think I was sleeping 2 full nights in a week.
And with all of this I was always on the forum too, carying a laptop in my tourbus and hotel rooms...
Because I love Warwick and this forum as much as I love my music.
And I read here that you want to cover the W logo I proudly wear on my Tshirt, and baseball cap?

Au contraire, I think now it is a good time to help Warwick with this ♣♣♣♣.
I know sometimes it sounds like bull♣♣♣♣, but Warwick really changed my life. My Warwick basses were my partners in my musical career. They helped me to express better than other basses, they completed me. They were a big part of my success, and I've had a lot of success in Romania as a bass player. There was a time when nobody knew my name in Romania, but everybody knew I was that guy with the cool Warwick - in 95. In 96 I was voted "the best rock bassist in Romania" by two publications. Since then I've never ever went to an audition. I played with 2 of the most successful bands in Romania from all times, and they simply called me to join them.

Call me pathetic, but I know at least 25% responsible of that was my Warwick.
No matter what happens, I will never forget that.
Why there is not an official statement? This is like those fights, when someone is completely knocked down, and the other one is like "come one, stand, you can fight, you can win!" "Come one, bring your side of the story, so we can continue to write about this bull♣♣♣♣ more, and more, it is good for our business, we sell our papers!"

I hope you agree with me that everything was covered here in this topic, and I hope you don't mind if I closed it now...

This is all political bull♣♣♣♣. This is a moment Warwick would really appreciate us to give some LOVE back, because they gave us a lot.